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Housing/Cities/Castles

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Thrasher, Jul 9, 2013.

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What kind of player housing/cities do you want?

  1. No Player Housing at ALL

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Only Player Housing Inside City Walls

    17.1%
  3. Restricted Area's for Player Housing

    45.7%
  4. Player Housing Anywhere

    34.3%
  5. Player Housing that can be Attacked

    28.6%
  6. Guild Built Cities

    51.4%
  7. Only Build Housing Inside Your Guilds City Walls

    22.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Theatre Elf

    Theatre Elf Active Member

    I am very house proud, and I don't want my house(s) to be destroyed or lose it or it possessions. I was intrigued by Wild Star until I saw that your home and crafting areas could be attacked and lost....eh eh...not my house.

    In DAoC there were designated housing areas, and they put a LOT of resources into it. It was lovely in certain areas and expensive, and you could have porch merchants selling your wares, which meant that for consumers to buy your stuff, they had to find your house. It really was an inefficient system, but not one I'd oppose.

    The EQ2 system was terrific, IMO, because the housing was easy to find (just wish they had house numbers & apartment numbers on the doors) and items could be bought thru the broker or cheaper by visiting your abode. I favor this system.

    Having houses anywhere, and I admit I haven't experienced that, sounds interesting, but as far as attracting people to your home would be tricky especially if you were also selling from your home. I am open to the idea.

    Guilds, I guess the same applies to them, too. My hope is that guild halls will not have all the amenities that were offered in EQ2, I think it was community destroying. Guilds should be able to decorate, have a device that transports your raid groups, but not merchants, bankers, and brokers. There still needs to be a reason to out and about with the community; though I'm torn about these, because I did like them.
  2. Nadili

    Nadili Member

    I am open to most any housing system the one killer would be implementing guild halls like EQ2 did I agree with Theatre Elf they destroyed alot for me in EQ2. If guild halls are in from start I would like to see them as a place to brag about guild accomplishments like trophies, but please don't add all the vendors to them.
  3. Ashlian

    Ashlian Queen of N00bs EQNexus Writer

    I agree about the guild halls in EQ2 except that my server had very little community prior to their implementation, so there was little to destroy. Guild halls actually gave players an incentive to meet up with guild members frequently, as you were always going to your guild hall.

    That said, I don't want to ever see a void in community that needs things like over amenitied guild halls to make people interact. I want houses and guild halls to be showplaces and private meeting spots, but hope to see buildings such as taverns and stores and theatres and dueling rings that will be player-owned public meeting spots.
  4. Boethius

    Boethius New Member

    Housing is good where it influences the game but horrible as an instance, offensive in fact but I don't share the view that it should be protected and only allow positive outcomes for the owner but think that limitations on damage should be in place to prevent player abuse. I love the idea of housing coming under attack and think that you should also be able to spill armies out from it to control zones even.
  5. Ashlian

    Ashlian Queen of N00bs EQNexus Writer

    I think it should depend on the housing. You're never going to get most housing addicts to play a game in which they can easily lose the focus of their efforts. But I have no problem with zones of influence allowing player built structures to be attacked if built in certain areas. That should be as optional as most PvP. Build in a contested area and don't be surprised if your house or fort is attacked. Build in the middle of Qeynos or Freeport and it should be virtually impossible for players to mount an attack on your house or store.
  6. Aulwewen

    Aulwewen Member

    I'm really looking forward to the possibility of guild cities. The housing in SWG, while really taken advantage of and abused, was great fun. My guild had a great city that was well managed, laid out nicely and tons of fun to build. If we are able to actually create guild towns/cities and then build housing within the confines of those cities...I'll be a happy boy!
  7. Seamus James

    Seamus James Well-Known Member

    I'd like to see a system similar to SWG again but I don't see how it could happen sadly. In SWG there was so little in the way of content on the buildable planets aside from a few Tusken forts or some dumb Gungan temple (grrrr Gungans!) that the player cities and bases actually BECAME the content. I know EQN is being touted as a sandbox game, but I don't think SOE would completely let the reins go like that again, and a lot more people want a lot more content waiting for them when they buy a game anymore.

    If real player housing happens in EQN I hope we can set up vendors inside. Accidentally stumbling across a small house in dark mountain forest with a vendor inside selling something you've been wanting forever is a cool feeling.
    mos0811 and Stormann like this.
  8. Theatre Elf

    Theatre Elf Active Member


    I personally think that would be cool. Was also hoping we could just be traveling peddlers, too, sort like Aion.
  9. Ashlian

    Ashlian Queen of N00bs EQNexus Writer


    One of the separate interviews with Omeed Dariani and Dave Georgeson at Gamescom had Dave stating that "we are working on getting Landmark finished virtually overnight" (slightly paraphrased). I've thought for a while that they really have EQNL very close to launch. The other thing stated in one part of that 3-part interview was that while they intend to have dev-made content in EQN, what they're really shooting for is extensive player-made content to be available from EQNL with the EQN launch.

    They talked specifically about how much content is available in games like EQ1 and EQ2 (no mention of WoW, but it can be inferred) and how players who have played these games can't help but be disappointed with the lack of depth in new games. I was really excited by the design philosophy discussions. Also, there was a solo interview with Dave Georgeson that effectively answered a lot of questions (no specifics, but he sure 'hinted' in his words, strongly).

    Galya and Seamus James like this.
  10. dngrmse

    dngrmse Member

    Some of the options in the poll are interesting, but none of them really appeal to me. I'm not so sure I'd like to see Antonica turned into a sprawling suburb of Qeynos. Once you leave the city, you should reasonably expect to find yourself in the wilds, and not have to battle orcs in someone's back yard.

    How about this....large non instanced areas specifically there for housing, guild halls, player built cities, castles, etc. Various paths throughout the lands that can be followed by anyone leading to a variety of environments...from deserts, to forests, to coasts, to mountains, and so on. Doing so would preserve the wild untamed nature of the lands, and still provide open free for all areas for player built structures with the same look and feel of the zone the players want to build in.

    There should also be some non instanced player housing in existing cities. Pretty much any building with a cosmetic door should be made available to players to purchase. Perhaps a few empty lots too.
    Mike and Ashlian like this.
  11. Galya

    Galya Member

    I would love to see individual house out in the landscape, though I think in Next that wll not be the case. Besides the fact I would be beside myself if someplayer or orc had destroyed the project I was working on. The time it takes to craft a house from nothing, if lost, would kill my desire to play more. Not to mention the huge cost outlay.

    I love the idea of guild housing and though I ran a huge guild in EQ2 at one time I do not see myself doing that now, it is just too time intensive for me. Though I do hope to bring some friends for a small guild.

    My second choice would be to have instanced housing like they had in DAoC, but in multiple areas and with area specific terrain and features, and then let us stake our homesites there. It should not be too large, to maintain the feeling of community. It is guarded heavily with style appropriate forces or magics so invaders cannot come in. This would allow us to build small communities of friends. Neighborhoods. There should be community vendors there and crafting areas and shops there as well.

    I would say save Landmark for the magnigicent builds and unique creeated homes.

    One last plea, please allow options for walls, floors and ceilings, from the start in all homes.
  12. Ashlian

    Ashlian Queen of N00bs EQNexus Writer


    I really believe we're going to be able to port moderated magnificent builds and the unique homes over to EQN from EQNL...and the neighborhoods wouldn't have to be instanced, as long as they control where you can place a house. Non-instanced areas for player cities and guild fortresses could be scattered around the world near cities or in places in the wilderness, allowing people to build in more remote locations without completely covering the world randomly as some of us find annoying.

    I don't think you need to worry about walls, floor and ceiling options....I believe we'll be able to use tools either in EQNL to make those things and port them over, or that crafters will be able to make them in EQN, or both. While the best designs might be sold in the Player Studio, they did say you will be able to share your designs for free if you choose. I'm hoping for a lot of flexibility in the whole system of cities, housing, and their construction.
    Thrasher and Galya like this.
  13. Galya

    Galya Member

    I am too Ashlian. I just went back to EQ2 to polish up my building skills. Carpenter or player made or bought walls are so much nicer. I still cringe thinking about all the weird turqouise tile or the mauve borders, I hid in my tier 2 guild hall and the walls I covered. While I loved the space and creating within it, I really did not like the interior design of the halls. If most homes are player made yet safe and in an acceptable place that is fine.

    I remember building my treehouse when we discovered how to break out in Kelethin. It was very fun running and falling through platforms and building in the open space. Very freeing and challenging to take that blank space and create something within it. Some of the things I have seen on Lucan, Crushbone and AB have been truely amazing.

    I am hoping good ideas come over, but I suspect they may not be as much as you think. The art will be harder to work within than I think, we think. Take a look at the Store and see how few items have made it in. thus far. I am hoping we have some clear direction of what will be acceptable and what will not.
    GrumpyKoala likes this.
  14. Ashlian

    Ashlian Queen of N00bs EQNexus Writer


    A Kelethin treehouse as you describe was my last decorating project in EQ2...and I was SO disappointed when I knew for sure they hadn't done the same 'through the window' zone rendering that allowed that in Kelethin in the Halas houses with those great picture windows looking out on the snow. I wanted a snowy patio!

    I'd like to define why I think we'll see a lot of player-made structures in EQN vs the EQ1 and EQ2 current Player Studio offerings. Everything submitted for EQ1 and EQ2 at the moment has to be created by the player in third party model- and texture-rendering software such as Maya, Blender and GIMP. The technical requirements are, for anyone unfamiliar with 3d rendering and texture mapping, formidable. Here are the technical specs for a house item:

    House Items

    2000 triangles is the maximum. No Level of Detail (LOD) meshes are necessary.​
    The finished item must be submitted as 1 combined mesh. There should only be 1 mesh in the scene total. No loose shells or extra pieces should be in the scene.​
    Review your polygons. If a polygon doesn't serve a shape/silhouette/UV purpose, it should not be there. (Example: a 12-sided pipe work does not display perceptively better than a 6-sided.)​
    Soften and harden edges or face smoothing groups appropriately. The surfaces will then take on light accordingly.​
    To achieve the right density of pixels in a given space, we recommend creating humanoid relatable scale objects (a human is about 6 feet in EverQuest II.)​

    Texture Naming

    Texture naming must be:​
    itemdescription_c.tga diffuse (color)​

    itemdescription_n.tga normal​

    itemdescription_s.tga spec​

    Mesh name should be itemdescription_L0 where 'itemdescription' may be dwarvenchair_L0.​

    Each house item texture map must be 512x512 (or smaller power-of-2) or an equivalent power-of-2 non-square dimension (256x1024, 256x512, etc.) not exceeding 2048 in any direction.​

    The asset will have 3 texture maps:​
    1 Diffuse (color) map​
    1 Normal map​
    1 Spec Map​

    I cannot do the above. Compare this to landscape and building design tools in EQNL....it's built-in. The editor is designed to be easy-to-use for a beginner, but with lots of depth for the experts. I'm guessing they plan for player real-estate submissions to be handled right from within EQNL, and I bet that your voted rank might govern ability to submit to the actual Player Studio (weed out some of the stuff by quality early on).

    But any worn item, like armor and weapons, and perhaps house items (they could go either way, but I think one time-lapse of the voxel editor showed furniture, so hopefully they'll use the voxel editor for at least some of that) will still have to be designed out-of-game and submitted like the above.

    Though I'm really hoping that part of the 'what design tools and ability do you want' roundtable question was determining if they should create an editor program for 3d modeling and texture mapping within EQNL. I understand that for 3d mapping, the SOE devs use Maya, and that's not something they would license for unlimited MMO users, which has prohibited development of player editing tools for Player Studio. Maya is pricy. But for EQNL...maybe not at launch, but I think we might see something custom-designed eventually.
    Galya likes this.
  15. Theatre Elf

    Theatre Elf Active Member

    I looked around to find info on Player Studio and soon realized that it seems to be for graphic designers; which I don't have a skill set. From some of the discussion I heard from the panels about Player Studio, it sounds like they are trying to make an in game system that is user friendly. <crossing my fingers that they can succeed>

    Fortunately from the Voxel videos I've seen, it looks user friendly, so I'm hoping that structures will be within my abilities.
    Ashlian likes this.
  16. dngrmse

    dngrmse Member

    I think it was Dave G. that mentioned they have new tools to allow them to produce armor, clothing, and I think items, at a very rapid pace for EQN. If that's truly the case, I would hope that some of these tools would be made available to players. Otherwise we'll all be forced to build with prefab items....the usual panels, and tiles, the same furniture, etc. And it does not sound as if this is SOE's intent with EQNL.

    Of course I could be hearing what I want to hear, and not necessarily what was actually said, but I'll remain hopeful. Even if external 3d modeling will be required to produce items for in game use, I can still have fun with pre fab construction. I really don't see myself devoting the time to learn 3D modeling from scratch, though I might eventually take a half hearted stab at it.

    Lastly, I suspect SOE allowed 'breakout' construction of homes in EQII with an eye on EQN, and EQNL. Even with item counts restricted as they are, some pretty amazing homes were built by players, and with EQNL as a giant breakout sandbox, with few restrictions, I think it's all going to be incredibly fun.
    Galya likes this.
  17. Galya

    Galya Member

    I completely agree, Ashlian. Items whether house or player made are always a bit difficult to manage and always come with all sorts of rules. Even for the building and design work I did in muds, item design invariably has rules of design so I imagined that these we just more complicated than the those basic ones I had made long ago.

    It is interesting the scope of the detail you had Ashlian where did you find this info?

    I re-watched the time lapse terra shaping videos last night. What I would not have given was the blending that can be done for all those pesky peeping up corners I had on the barn I built in Halas down at the dock! That being said through it may have been a bit misleading because of the adeptness of the two designers doing that construction, but the reshaping temple one just took a bit over a half an hour. The tools HAVE to be better than what we have now. I do not think even someone like Jesdyr could build that fast in EQ2.

    I agree there were likely thinking of implementing something like this, because they did keep allowing breakout places. I created my treehouse thinking it might come down anyday. Then when Halas a was built and it was allowed there to I wondered if someone was watching what we all could do. *grins* Here's hoping that we get what we imagine, I suppose in a month or so we will know more.
    Ashlian likes this.
  18. Ashlian

    Ashlian Queen of N00bs EQNexus Writer


    I definitely agree! I'm really looking forward to it and believe they'll work out a set of 3d modelling and texture tools for EQNL/EQN that players can use without a degree in it. But the voxel world editor for building is totally separate from all that, so we should all be able to build houses with custom looks, terraform the landscape and hopefully make furniture, even if the furniture has to be considered as part of the house. I'm unsure about furniture, but I don't see a reason you couldn't make furniture with the voxel editor, it just might not be scaleable/moveable...they said at one point they had two systems in place, one for building blueprints that would require more resources as it got bigger and one for scaleable items -furniture - that would require fixed amounts of resources, but I took that to mean crafted stuff from patterns. I hope they issue beta invites soon :)

    My info comes from the Getting Started part of the Player Studio website for EQ2. I took one look at it and decided I would wait for EQNL!

    https://www.everquest2.com/player-studio/get-started
  19. Ashlian

    Ashlian Queen of N00bs EQNexus Writer


    I left EQ2 right around the credit card fiasco, not long after Halas was released, and I didn't know you COULD break out there! I tried quite a bit in a couple of the houses with the teleporter pad trick, but I never found a way...now I want to go back, and make my snowy patio :D

    I definitely think the devs were amazed when players figured out the Kelethin thing, which as I remember was caused because they decided to render actual views of Kelethin through acorn windows, with the result that they partially rendered the whole tree city and part of G Fay. It was such a trip finding all the places you wouldn't fall through the world and could build on.

    The breakout stuff was the only reason I envied the tier 3 guildhalls, since they could build in parts of Qeynos Hills and West Commonlands because of the same rendering decisions. And go WAY up on the z-axis, too...I can't wait to see what we can do in EQNL. And I totally agree, by Halas, they should have been able to prevent breaking out if they wanted to. I think they thought it was cool, too, I mean, I was so impressed myself that people figured out how to do it initially :cool:
  20. Mike

    Mike New Member

    I would like to see core cities used as central meeting points and then the bulk of land permits to be around those cities so that players can create their own surrounding villages, housing, farms, inns etc. around the central hub. Some limited land grants further out for lone guild watch-towers or small player made towns would be good as well, but to make the game seem alive there needs to central meeting spots and not having the wilderness totally chewed up by developments.

    In most existing games fully player made towns often suffer from lack of things to do and the absence of both players and NPCs. I hope this is tackled with the new AI to allow constructs to have purpose. For example being able to add 'tags' to certain types of area to cause it to server a specific function; e.g.

    Home - Allows restricted access, player storage, ability to move furniture, binding points etc.
    Market - Attracts NPC vendors. The greater the use of the vendor the greater the stock of goods
    Store - Allows players with permission to set-up a shop
    Bizarre - Allows any player to set-up a store
    Farmland - Causes non-rare 'plant' resources to spawn
    Mine - Causes non-rare 'mineral' resources to spawn (only in subterranean levels)
    Barracks - Attracts NPC guards to the area
    Smithy - NPC repair vendor
    Temple - Priest provides cures/ heals for a charge. Period religious based quests offered
    Town Hall - Allows player 'mayor' of town to place notices of events. Increased chance of NPCs offering quests
    Spires - Creates transport spires
    Tavern - Sells food and drink. Allows player entertainment (hoping for some SWG style interaction!), attracts NPC customers, gambling mini-games at tables
    Arena - Activates PVP setting whilst in area, permits addition of damaging environments - fire pits which actually damage etc.

    I am sure that more imaginative ways of livening up a settlement can also be suggested. The key factor fun factor for me though is for the player settlement to offer the same amenities and attract the same NPCs as established cities, including quest givers and NPCs simply wondering about adding atmosphere. Setting of race preferences would be key as well, e.g. troll stronghold vs. Kelethin vs. Cosmopolitan suburb.

    Also, how about the elected mayor of an area being able to select the background music for a town once it reaches a certain size?
    Wakazishi likes this.

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